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	<title>Comments on: environmental protection: will the rule of law grow through this?</title>
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	<link>http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/03/environmental-protection-will-the-rule-of-law-grow-through-this/</link>
	<description>China law blog covering Chinese law, business, and non-profits by Thomas Chow</description>
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		<title>By: T Chow</title>
		<link>http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/03/environmental-protection-will-the-rule-of-law-grow-through-this/comment-page-1/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>T Chow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/03/27/environmental-protection-will-the-rule-of-law-grow-through-this/#comment-206</guid>
		<description>Charlie:

I would agree that most MNC&#039;s tend to be quite good about following the law.  I haven&#039;t had many clients who wanted to be in violation of the law--gray areas perhaps at times, but in general, desires to comply with the law or at least a respect for it.

That article was really interesting about the 3 people in Shanxi.  I also agree that the company didn&#039;t get it.  It is good to know that at least the Chinese are willing to enforce it against some of their own.  While perhaps not really all that effective, it is very typical Chinese message-sending.  (which is not necessarily a bad thing)

In addition to something like a scorecard, I also see the lack of an established plaintiff&#039;s bar, which is encouraged to be private watch dogs.  I know that my former chemical clients were far more careful because of the lawsuits.  (major chemical companies back when I was doing environmental and toxic tort law)  Yes, they did respect the law.  But it was that fear of losing even more money to plaintiffs (and their lawyers) that made them very careful to be compliant.  China seems to be far from having such a plaintiff&#039;s bar, but if it ever learned to embrace and encourage such activity, I could see that having as much effect as strong regulatory enforcement, if not even greater effect. 

Either way though, I hope MEP does add some teeth to its stated intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie:</p>
<p>I would agree that most MNC&#8217;s tend to be quite good about following the law.  I haven&#8217;t had many clients who wanted to be in violation of the law&#8211;gray areas perhaps at times, but in general, desires to comply with the law or at least a respect for it.</p>
<p>That article was really interesting about the 3 people in Shanxi.  I also agree that the company didn&#8217;t get it.  It is good to know that at least the Chinese are willing to enforce it against some of their own.  While perhaps not really all that effective, it is very typical Chinese message-sending.  (which is not necessarily a bad thing)</p>
<p>In addition to something like a scorecard, I also see the lack of an established plaintiff&#8217;s bar, which is encouraged to be private watch dogs.  I know that my former chemical clients were far more careful because of the lawsuits.  (major chemical companies back when I was doing environmental and toxic tort law)  Yes, they did respect the law.  But it was that fear of losing even more money to plaintiffs (and their lawyers) that made them very careful to be compliant.  China seems to be far from having such a plaintiff&#8217;s bar, but if it ever learned to embrace and encourage such activity, I could see that having as much effect as strong regulatory enforcement, if not even greater effect. </p>
<p>Either way though, I hope MEP does add some teeth to its stated intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie McElwee</title>
		<link>http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/03/environmental-protection-will-the-rule-of-law-grow-through-this/comment-page-1/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie McElwee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tom: I agree that these encouraging words (which I believe were sincerely expressed) must be followed up by actions. I wish China published an environmental enforcement scorecard similar to that put out by US EPA which presents the figures on civil and criminal cases initiated, penalties imposed, etc. 

I certainly have the impression that foreign companies are enforced against more frequently, but that may just be that I am more likely to become aware of those actions than a case against a Chinese metallurgical coke plant in Shanxi Province, for instance. Some environmental enforcement against Chinese nationals is being reported in the press:  http://english.cri.cn/2946/2008/03/21/1321@336476.htm. Notice, however, that it was the lowest level “criminals” who took the fall in this case, and not the Chinese corporate entity. Despite relatively light sentences, one can’t help but reflect that Messers. Su, Jiang, and Guo must be the three least connected men in China. 

Clearly foreign companies are more likely to be singled out for bad press if they violate China&#039;s environmental laws than are Chinese companies, and the notion is certainly prevalent here that foreign companies take environmental shortcuts in China they do not take in their home countries.  This notion is absolutely not true (at least with respect to US, Australian, and European companies) in my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom: I agree that these encouraging words (which I believe were sincerely expressed) must be followed up by actions. I wish China published an environmental enforcement scorecard similar to that put out by US EPA which presents the figures on civil and criminal cases initiated, penalties imposed, etc. </p>
<p>I certainly have the impression that foreign companies are enforced against more frequently, but that may just be that I am more likely to become aware of those actions than a case against a Chinese metallurgical coke plant in Shanxi Province, for instance. Some environmental enforcement against Chinese nationals is being reported in the press:  <a href="http://english.cri.cn/2946/2008/03/21/1321@336476.htm" rel="nofollow">http://english.cri.cn/2946/2008/03/21/1321@336476.htm</a>. Notice, however, that it was the lowest level “criminals” who took the fall in this case, and not the Chinese corporate entity. Despite relatively light sentences, one can’t help but reflect that Messers. Su, Jiang, and Guo must be the three least connected men in China. </p>
<p>Clearly foreign companies are more likely to be singled out for bad press if they violate China&#8217;s environmental laws than are Chinese companies, and the notion is certainly prevalent here that foreign companies take environmental shortcuts in China they do not take in their home countries.  This notion is absolutely not true (at least with respect to US, Australian, and European companies) in my experience.</p>
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