Comments on: food exports to japan drop and china has no one to blame http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/ China law blog covering Chinese law, business, and non-profits by Thomas Chow Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:38:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: T Chow http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-5725 T Chow Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:47:52 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-5725 Marcello, Thanks for dropping by. Unfortunately, I dont have any good resources to suggest since I dont know many people who deal with food safety standards in either of the countries. While many China bloggers comment here and there, I dont know if I would consider anyone a reliable source of this kind of data. I would probably start by with the FDA equivalent of each country and look from there. Tom Marcello,

Thanks for dropping by. Unfortunately, I dont have any good resources to suggest since I dont know many people who deal with food safety standards in either of the countries. While many China bloggers comment here and there, I dont know if I would consider anyone a reliable source of this kind of data. I would probably start by with the FDA equivalent of each country and look from there.

Tom

]]> By: marcello http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-5716 marcello Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:26:24 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-5716 HI there I found your blog when doing some research for food standards in Japan and China. I am looking into the various standards in the two countries and comparisons of government regulation in these standards. I also need some data to try and compare the two. Could you suggest any reliable journals or sources of data that cover these issues for either country or a comparison of both?? Great blog by the way thanks Marcello HI there I found your blog when doing some research for food standards in Japan and China. I am looking into the various standards in the two countries and comparisons of government regulation in these standards. I also need some data to try and compare the two. Could you suggest any reliable journals or sources of data that cover these issues for either country or a comparison of both??

Great blog by the way

thanks

Marcello

]]> By: T Chow http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-4397 T Chow Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:29:50 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-4397 Tom, Perhaps its more accurate to say the corporations that are based in the developed countries take in obscene profit margins. I do agree that this is changing, both because China is becoming more developed, and also because this economy is taking away those "obscene" profit margins as shoppers in a down economy are looking to not spend at all or looking for goods on the cheap. (a la Walmart) I will probably be stoned by an economist, but the more I think about national debt/surplus, the more I feel like we're only talking about funny money and not real cash... Tom,

Perhaps its more accurate to say the corporations that are based in the developed countries take in obscene profit margins. I do agree that this is changing, both because China is becoming more developed, and also because this economy is taking away those “obscene” profit margins as shoppers in a down economy are looking to not spend at all or looking for goods on the cheap. (a la Walmart)

I will probably be stoned by an economist, but the more I think about national debt/surplus, the more I feel like we’re only talking about funny money and not real cash…

]]> By: Tom http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-4334 Tom Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:36:35 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-4334 I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to importing and exporting, but I did see a remark made in Falen's comment that I disagree with (please, correct me if I'm wrong). "That’s the global division of labor, China provides the labor and the developed country with the knowledge do the rest and gets to take in obscene profit margins." If the developed countries are taking in all of these "obscene profit margins," then why do most/all of the developed countries have huge national debts while the "labor countries" are rolling in huge surpluses? I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to importing and exporting, but I did see a remark made in Falen’s comment that I disagree with (please, correct me if I’m wrong).

“That’s the global division of labor, China provides the labor and the developed country with the knowledge do the rest and gets to take in obscene profit margins.”

If the developed countries are taking in all of these “obscene profit margins,” then why do most/all of the developed countries have huge national debts while the “labor countries” are rolling in huge surpluses?

]]> By: Marc http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-519 Marc Thu, 22 May 2008 11:41:36 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-519 In my opinion caveat emptor is fine in a auction context where there are many vendors who are not associated with the auctioneers but it is not appropriate for person to person dealing. Person to person dealing gives the opportunity for trust to grow. In Australia over the years, sheep stations, factories, farms were sold on the nod i. e. when the person nodded their agreement to buy then the sale was made and no one rescinded on the deal and the property that was for sale was found to be as advertised. Australian people in the 20th Century up until the nineties ( and even now really) most people prided themselves on their honesty, their ability to be honest was a huge part of their self esteem/self respect. they slept well. Not only this but the economy of the country grew because of peoples' ability to trust others. Business could be done with certainty. Wealth and honest are inseparable unless you own a monopoly on something. In that case your time will come. Sandstorms In my opinion caveat emptor is fine in a auction context where there are many vendors who are not associated with the auctioneers but it is not appropriate for person to person dealing. Person to person dealing gives the opportunity for trust to grow. In Australia over the years, sheep stations, factories, farms were sold on the nod i. e. when the person nodded their agreement to buy then the sale was made and no one rescinded on the deal and the property that was for sale was found to be as advertised. Australian people in the 20th Century up until the nineties ( and even now really) most people prided themselves on their honesty, their ability to be honest was a huge part of their self esteem/self respect. they slept well. Not only this but the economy of the country grew because of peoples’ ability to trust others. Business could be done with certainty. Wealth and honest are inseparable unless you own a monopoly on something. In that case your time will come. Sandstorms

]]> By: T Chow http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-466 T Chow Thu, 15 May 2008 13:32:59 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-466 Turtlewind, I agree with you. I noticed that part of the quote, but because I wanted to talk about general policy issues, I did not expound on that point. Marc, Unfortunately, I think that is very true and it will be hard for China to rebuild some of the lost trust and reclaim good will instead of fear and doubt. Turtlewind,

I agree with you. I noticed that part of the quote, but because I wanted to talk about general policy issues, I did not expound on that point.

Marc,

Unfortunately, I think that is very true and it will be hard for China to rebuild some of the lost trust and reclaim good will instead of fear and doubt.

]]> By: Marc http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-458 Marc Wed, 14 May 2008 12:38:49 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-458 I like the old saying that people do not always remember what you said but always remember how they felt in their dealings with you. I think that in business one does not remember what someone said but how you felt about the experience. If you feel that you got a fair deal then you feel good (unless you are a masochist). As B F Skinner said (something like) every action that is rewarded is more likely to be repeated. I like the old saying that people do not always remember what you said but always remember how they felt in their dealings with you. I think that in business one does not remember what someone said but how you felt about the experience. If you feel that you got a fair deal then you feel good (unless you are a masochist). As B F Skinner said (something like) every action that is rewarded is more likely to be repeated.

]]> By: Turtlewind http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-425 Turtlewind Sat, 10 May 2008 21:15:41 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-425 There's more to the poisoned dumplings case than the typical 'crappy Chinese quality control' story. The third quote mentions it but doesn't give it much weight - there's some reasonably convincing evidence that the dumplings weren't accidentally contaminated but actually deliberately poisoned. This is why there's been a big drop in volume, compared with the lead toys or dodgy toothpaste scandals which (as far as I know) didn't really have that much long-term effect. There’s more to the poisoned dumplings case than the typical ‘crappy Chinese quality control’ story. The third quote mentions it but doesn’t give it much weight – there’s some reasonably convincing evidence that the dumplings weren’t accidentally contaminated but actually deliberately poisoned. This is why there’s been a big drop in volume, compared with the lead toys or dodgy toothpaste scandals which (as far as I know) didn’t really have that much long-term effect.

]]> By: T Chow http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-424 T Chow Sat, 10 May 2008 18:12:11 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-424 I agree that the government isn't responsible ultimately. But what I am saying is that until there are some more forms of regulations upon manufacturers (like regular and random inspections) that the Chinese government does, then China may risk losing some part of its export/sourcing business when other countries finally get fed up with dealing with all of the mistakes. So my argument is that if the government became more involved, then it would (hopefully) build some more trust into the system. I think the government could build more credibility into the system then just saying "caveat emptor" each time things go wrong. Caveat emptor is indeed the rule, but it's just a matter of China shooting itself in the foot. And yes, I agree, I don't think anyone crying with the food crisis. I am speculating that it was just dumb luck and not incredible planning by the government that exports just h happened to drop at an opportune time. I agree that the government isn’t responsible ultimately. But what I am saying is that until there are some more forms of regulations upon manufacturers (like regular and random inspections) that the Chinese government does, then China may risk losing some part of its export/sourcing business when other countries finally get fed up with dealing with all of the mistakes. So my argument is that if the government became more involved, then it would (hopefully) build some more trust into the system. I think the government could build more credibility into the system then just saying “caveat emptor” each time things go wrong. Caveat emptor is indeed the rule, but it’s just a matter of China shooting itself in the foot.

And yes, I agree, I don’t think anyone crying with the food crisis. I am speculating that it was just dumb luck and not incredible planning by the government that exports just h happened to drop at an opportune time.

]]> By: Falen http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-423 Falen Sat, 10 May 2008 16:35:54 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-423 "Down the street"? And where would that be? India? Vietnam? As if you are less likely to get poison food, lead paint, etc sourcing from other places without due diligence. It's fun to generalized the evil Chinese culture for bringing about the bad products, but fact of the matter is, the product quality assurance experts and the know-hows, are sitting in United States, Japan, Europe, etc. That's the global division of labor, China provides the labor and the developed country with the knowledge do the rest and gets to take in obscene profit margins. That responsibility clearly comes with quality assurance. Chinese government is not responsible for QA. They are not going to sit ad the end of your assembly line doing the job of the manufacturer. Why didn't the manufacturer of the tainted blood thinner find out about contamination? Governments are responsible for setting some minimum standards and manufacturers should have their own standards that exceed that. Where's the manufacturers in all this? If they missed it in China they would have missed it elsewhere as well. And with the onset of inflation on food price, countries are tripping over themselves limiting food export, I am not sure anybody is very sorry that export to Japan is down 30%. “Down the street”? And where would that be? India? Vietnam? As if you are less likely to get poison food, lead paint, etc sourcing from other places without due diligence.

It’s fun to generalized the evil Chinese culture for bringing about the bad products, but fact of the matter is, the product quality assurance experts and the know-hows, are sitting in United States, Japan, Europe, etc. That’s the global division of labor, China provides the labor and the developed country with the knowledge do the rest and gets to take in obscene profit margins. That responsibility clearly comes with quality assurance.

Chinese government is not responsible for QA. They are not going to sit ad the end of your assembly line doing the job of the manufacturer. Why didn’t the manufacturer of the tainted blood thinner find out about contamination? Governments are responsible for setting some minimum standards and manufacturers should have their own standards that exceed that. Where’s the manufacturers in all this? If they missed it in China they would have missed it elsewhere as well.

And with the onset of inflation on food price, countries are tripping over themselves limiting food export, I am not sure anybody is very sorry that export to Japan is down 30%.

]]> By: Bill http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-421 Bill Sat, 10 May 2008 14:11:59 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-421 Caveat emptor is always the rule for trade. But that also include the trust of the supplier by the purchaser. If the purchaser cannot trust the supplier, and has to spend money and time to do extraordinary amount of QA, the supplier would trust somebody else. I think China is still not familiar with the concept of free market, especially the "many knowledgeable buyers and many knowledgeable sellers". The Chinese stance works very well when it is a monopoly, and doesn't when the buyer can walk down the street to buy from someone else. Caveat emptor is always the rule for trade. But that also include the trust of the supplier by the purchaser. If the purchaser cannot trust the supplier, and has to spend money and time to do extraordinary amount of QA, the supplier would trust somebody else.

I think China is still not familiar with the concept of free market, especially the “many knowledgeable buyers and many knowledgeable sellers”. The Chinese stance works very well when it is a monopoly, and doesn’t when the buyer can walk down the street to buy from someone else.

]]> By: Marc http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/comment-page-1/#comment-419 Marc Sat, 10 May 2008 07:56:34 +0000 http://www.chinalawandbusiness.com/2008/05/09/food-exports-to-japan-drop-and-china-has-no-one-to-blame/#comment-419 It seems that part of the Chinese culture is that it is OK to try to deceive somone and that the person who is being deceived is responsible for the pain and suffering caused. I recently was in China and met a schoolteacher who spoke good English when I was in a small tourist town. We exchanged email addresses and exchanged emails. He said he was using my respones as part of his lessons with his students. This week he sent me a 'my Mother needs an operation and we cannot afford it letter and could you send money' email. It was disappointing. I was about to send hm some DVDs that would have been useful for his school. Manipulation using guilt , fear and obligation seems a fair thing to do with some of the Chinese. This does not create an environment where people can feel safe when doing business with others, this trust is essential for a free flowing booming sustainable economy in my opinion. Marc It seems that part of the Chinese culture is that it is OK to try to deceive somone and that the person who is being deceived is responsible for the pain and suffering caused. I recently was in China and met a schoolteacher who spoke good English when I was in a small tourist town. We exchanged email addresses and exchanged emails. He said he was using my respones as part of his lessons with his students. This week he sent me a ‘my Mother needs an operation and we cannot afford it letter and could you send money’ email. It was disappointing. I was about to send hm some DVDs that would have been useful for his school. Manipulation using guilt , fear and obligation seems a fair thing to do with some of the Chinese. This does not create an environment where people can feel safe when doing business with others, this trust is essential for a free flowing booming sustainable economy in my opinion.

Marc

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